Daniel McCullough from Pharus Wellbeing - Mental Health Education & Awareness

Don't forget to check out our other episodes:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KarsSrPx6iE&list=PLPaMcwdeg7Yy63xfx7Xduxw-mEocfGq9g

Daniel McCullough is a passionate and highly respected Mental Health First Aid facilitator and Applied Suicide Intervention Skills (ASIST) trainer. With a background in healthcare and education, Daniel has dedicated his career to creating supportive environments where meaningful mental health conversations can thrive. Formerly a Health & Wellbeing Coordinator at a major Melbourne hospital, he pioneered wellbeing programs and crafted mental health strategies for over 6,000 staff. Now, as the founder of Pharus Wellbeing, Daniel brings his expertise to workplaces, sporting clubs, and communities across Queensland, empowering teams to engage in mental health education and support. Through his down-to-earth approach and his own lived experiences, Daniel makes mental health relatable and engaging, helping organisations build healthier, more resilient cultures.

Check out Pharus Wellbeing's website - http://www.pharuswellbeing.com.au

or the Instagram - http://www.instagram.com/pharuswellbeing

or Facebook - http://facebook.com/pharuswellbeing

Transcript

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<Michael Coles>Welcome to The Deep Dive for this week.

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<Voiceover>This is The Deep Dive Podcast.

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<Voiceover>And here is your host, Michael Coles.

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<Michael Coles>Daniel McCullough is a passionate and highly respected mental health first aid facilitator and applied suicide intervention skills trainer.

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<Michael Coles>With a background in health care and education, Daniel has dedicated his career to creating supportive environments where meaningful mental health conversations can thrive.

00:00:58.160 --> 00:01:09.040
<Michael Coles>Formerly, a health and wellbeing coordinator at a major Melbourne hospital, he pioneered wellbeing programs and crafted mental health strategies for over 6,000 staff.

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<Michael Coles>Now, as a founder of Pharus Wellbeing, Daniel brings his expertise to workplaces, sporting clubs and communities across Queensland, empowering teams to engage in mental health education and support.

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<Michael Coles>Through his down-to-earth approach and his own lived experiences, Daniel makes mental health relatable and engaging, helping organizations to build healthier, more resilient workplaces.

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<Michael Coles>Daniel McCullough, welcome to The Deep Dive.

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<Daniel McCullough>Yeah, thanks Michael.

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<Daniel McCullough>Appreciate you having me on.

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<Michael Coles>Okay, so what are the key signs that someone might be struggling in their mental health?

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<Michael Coles>And how can we identify them early on?

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<Daniel McCullough>Yeah, it's a really good question.

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<Daniel McCullough>And the easy answer is it depends, because it really depends on the individual and how they're going.

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<Daniel McCullough>But I think a couple of the key things that we're looking out for really is those changes in behavior.

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<Daniel McCullough>So initially, if we're concerned about someone, you might notice a little bit of a change in potentially how they're behaving.

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<Daniel McCullough>So they may not seem themselves as much.

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<Daniel McCullough>They may be seeming to act a little bit differently, whether that's having a bit more of a shorter fuse or just what we're looking for is those subtle changes in that personality, if there is.

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<Daniel McCullough>So typically, though, for blokes and particularly, a few things we're looking for is there could be, and some common ones are around having a bit of a short fuse, getting a little bit more angry or annoyed or ticked off at things that maybe don't necessarily or don't normally annoy them or frustrate them.

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<Daniel McCullough>So sometimes it's that anger, that short fuse.

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<Daniel McCullough>Another sign, and this is common for a lot of people who may be struggling with the mental health is around sleep.

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<Daniel McCullough>Sleep is a big one, whether it's struggling to get to sleep or sleeping for too long or even waking up in the middle of the night or waking up multiple times in the middle of the night and they're wide awake.

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<Daniel McCullough>So some of the key ones we're looking for is around that sort of anger and sleep and those just subtle changes in behaviour that you might notice in someone.

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<Daniel McCullough>You really just go with your gut.

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<Michael Coles>Okay.

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<Michael Coles>So how can I create a supportive environment for someone to feel comfortable opening up about their mental health challenges?

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<Daniel McCullough>Yeah, it's a good question.

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<Daniel McCullough>And I think the most important thing we can do to create that sort of safe environment is really just to be genuine and empathetic and caring.

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<Daniel McCullough>That goes a really long way.

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<Daniel McCullough>So when we're potentially coming and approaching someone around their mental health, you really want to approach in that caring and non-judgmental way.

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<Daniel McCullough>So when a person knows that we're actually being real and genuine and empathetic, a lot of the time, that's all they need to initially feel comfortable enough in opening up because that's the key.

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<Daniel McCullough>The key is to allow the person to feel comfortable in having a conversation because for some people, it's quite challenging to open up, to talk about things that might be really concerning them.

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<Daniel McCullough>So really, some of the best things that you can do is being real and being empathetic and just letting them know that you're there and you want to help and you want to care for them without actually taking over and trying to fix.

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<Daniel McCullough>So yeah, really good question there, Michael.

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<Michael Coles>Okay.

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<Michael Coles>So what are some effective strategies for starting a conversation about mental health?

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<Michael Coles>What's a friend or family member who is actually struggling?

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<Daniel McCullough>Yeah, this is a good one.

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<Daniel McCullough>And I think our Aussie culture plays a really big challenge in this, because a lot of the time it's really hard to, how do you start that conversation if you're concerned about someone?

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<Daniel McCullough>Because typical Aussie culture is you ask someone, hey, how are you going?

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<Daniel McCullough>And it's fine.

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<Daniel McCullough>Or what have you been up to lately?

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<Daniel McCullough>Not much.

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<Daniel McCullough>So it's really hard to, how do you navigate past that if you're concerned about someone?

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<Daniel McCullough>So a couple of strategies that you can think of, and I've got a little bit of a framework and a model that you can think about it is, and it's called PALS, which is Prepare, Ask, Listen and Support.

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<Daniel McCullough>So first things around preparing.

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<Daniel McCullough>So thinking about, okay, where, where are you going to have the conversation?

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<Daniel McCullough>So somewhere where a person might feel comfortable.

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<Daniel McCullough>So not in the lunch room with 15 other people or in a space where there's other others around them.

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<Daniel McCullough>You're thinking about where you want to have the conversation and you're also thinking about when.

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<Daniel McCullough>So not Friday afternoon at 4.59 before the end of the workday.

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<Daniel McCullough>You're going on a long weekend and the traffic's really bad and you reach out to them.

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<Daniel McCullough>Sometimes when you say, hey, I'm concerned and they say, yeah, I'm struggling.

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<Daniel McCullough>And you're like, well, I've got to go pick the kids up from school.

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<Daniel McCullough>You know, we've got to beat the traffic.

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<Daniel McCullough>So really thinking about how you can prepare to have the conversation.

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<Daniel McCullough>The biggest thing is around how to ask it.

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<Daniel McCullough>And so I've got a couple of tips that you can use when asking a conversation.

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<Daniel McCullough>And the first one is around, you know, it's called I've noticed.

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<Daniel McCullough>So this strategy is around noticing something you might have seen in the person.

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<Daniel McCullough>So, hey, I've noticed you're looking a little bit more tired lately or, hey, I've noticed you don't seem to be yourself.

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<Daniel McCullough>You know, is everything okay?

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<Daniel McCullough>Do you want to have a chat?

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<Daniel McCullough>I'm concerned.

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<Daniel McCullough>So that's a great way to open up a conversation, a perfect little strategy there.

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<Daniel McCullough>And the other one is around out of 10.

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<Daniel McCullough>So, you know, how is your day out of 10?

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<Daniel McCullough>Give me a number between one and 10.

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<Daniel McCullough>How was your day or how are you feeling out of 10?

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<Daniel McCullough>And the reason I like this one is because it helps to sort of open up.

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<Daniel McCullough>You get to follow up with some additional questions.

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<Daniel McCullough>So if their day is a two out of 10, you can go, okay, was, is there something that's happened?

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<Daniel McCullough>Has there something been impacting you today?

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<Daniel McCullough>What's caused your day to be a 10, to be a two?

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<Daniel McCullough>You know, so those are some great little strategies around opening up.

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<Daniel McCullough>But I think the most important thing then around, okay, well, starting that conversation is to listen as well.

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<Daniel McCullough>So if you're thinking about strategies to ask, that's what we're looking at.

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<Michael Coles>Okay.

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<Michael Coles>So what are the common misconceptions about mental health?

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<Michael Coles>And how can we work to break down these stigmas?

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<Daniel McCullough>We're getting better, Michael.

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<Daniel McCullough>But I think some of the common misconceptions still out there, generally speaking, from time to time, is people think that being diagnosed with a mental illness or struggling with their mental health is, that's it, their life's over after it.

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<Daniel McCullough>You can't recover from that.

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<Daniel McCullough>People are afraid and there's that stigma and fear around, okay, well, if I'm diagnosed with a mental illness or I'm struggling with my mental health, then I'm never going to be able to recover from that.

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<Daniel McCullough>And so what we're really trying to do in advocating around that is to let people know that you can.

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<Daniel McCullough>With the right help and supports from family and friends and doctors and professionals, you can recover and you can go on to live long and fulfilling lives.

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<Daniel McCullough>So that's probably the biggest misconception that we come about is there's no hope and there's nothing that can be done.

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<Daniel McCullough>When I can tell you that there is and there's a lot of things that can be done.

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<Michael Coles>Okay, so what are some self-care practices that can support my own mental health, especially when supporting others who may be struggling?

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<Daniel McCullough>That's a really good one.

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<Daniel McCullough>Self-care, it's actually really, really important.

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<Daniel McCullough>And self-care generally, it doesn't have to be anything big, right?

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<Daniel McCullough>A lot of times people think, oh, well self-care, go and get a massage or do something that's really, really big that costs money.

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<Daniel McCullough>It doesn't have to be that at all.

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<Daniel McCullough>Self-care is really unique for that individual.

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<Daniel McCullough>It's whatever makes them feel good.

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<Daniel McCullough>So for some people, self-care could just be connecting with friends and family or the kids and, you know, having a chat, grabbing a coffee, like really spending some time with them.

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<Daniel McCullough>Where for other people, it might be physical activity and going to the gym or going for a run or going for a walk or in nature.

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<Daniel McCullough>So it really depends on the person and the individual.

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<Daniel McCullough>But I would say self-care is anything that makes them feel good.

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<Daniel McCullough>For some people, it might be reading a book or having a bit of quiet time.

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<Daniel McCullough>For others, it might just be cleaning the house because the house is a bit of a mess and you haven't been able to get on the chores lately.

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<Daniel McCullough>So it doesn't have to be any big, small things that can be done to just incremental improvements around their mental health.

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<Daniel McCullough>So those are some of those small little wins that you can do throughout the day to help improve your health and well-being.

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<Michael Coles>Okay.

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<Michael Coles>So going on to a little bit of boundaries now, but how can I actually maintain boundaries while supporting somebody else through their mental health journey to avoid burnout and compassion fatigue?

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<Michael Coles>Because I think that's important to sort of know about these types of things.

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<Michael Coles>How can I sort of assist in that way?

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<Daniel McCullough>I think when you talk about this, a big piece of that puzzle is around that communication as well.

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<Daniel McCullough>Because first and foremost, you have to make sure that you're okay before you're supporting other people, right?

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<Daniel McCullough>And if you're not in the right head space or if you're not feeling well to support those other people, a couple of things is we need to have that open communication.

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<Daniel McCullough>So if you are at a point where you can't, you're feeling burnt out, that you're feeling tired and you just can't be that person, either a couple of things, have that open communication with them, but also think of what I call the safety net.

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<Daniel McCullough>Are there other people around them who they can lean on?

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<Daniel McCullough>So it's not just you, not just you as the one person, who else can we involve and who else can we, can that person potentially lean on to get that support or to talk to?

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<Daniel McCullough>So I would say a big thing is around that communication and letting them know like, hey, maybe I just can't right now.

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<Daniel McCullough>However, can we find somebody else who can have that conversation?

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<Daniel McCullough>Because it's hard, especially for some people who it's ongoing conversation, supporting people, not just over one day or a couple of days, over weeks and months and years.

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<Daniel McCullough>I'm not sure around your thoughts around that, Michael, but I think communication plays a big part in making sure that we're OK.

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<Michael Coles>And also sort of getting that sort of like a team in place, because obviously it's not just one person that can support other people with their mental health.

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<Michael Coles>It's like a team of people so they can share the load around.

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<Daniel McCullough>100%.

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<Daniel McCullough>And that's what I call that safety net, right?

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<Daniel McCullough>Because then if I can't, there's someone else, you know, is there you, Michael, that can step up?

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<Daniel McCullough>Is there someone else who can they can lean on?

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<Daniel McCullough>So really, I think that's an important part.

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<Daniel McCullough>Is it let's make it a team effort instead of just it?

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<Daniel McCullough>All of it just falls on the one person, because that can be too much, especially if it goes for a long time.

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<Michael Coles>Yeah.

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<Michael Coles>So what specific tips from your company, Pharus Wellbeing, can help guide people in holding a meaningful and safe mental health conversation?

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<Daniel McCullough>I'm a big advocate for this one, Michael, and I think it's around education and training.

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<Daniel McCullough>So some of the tips that I can provide, really, are around, if people haven't heard of it, it's educating themselves and giving them the knowledge and the confidence to actually know how to have a conversation around mental health and how to link in and support somebody.

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<Daniel McCullough>And so the tip I would give people is if you haven't heard of a training called Mental Health First Aid Training, or even Suicide First Aid Training, look into it, find out more.

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<Daniel McCullough>Because what we do is we provide that education and training and knowledge to give people that confidence in knowing what to say and how to go about it.

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<Daniel McCullough>It's not about being perfect.

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<Daniel McCullough>It's around giving them tools in the toolkit to know what to say, how to say it, and how to link them into professional help.

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<Daniel McCullough>It's not about being the perfect person or having the perfect statement or the perfect question.

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<Daniel McCullough>So my tips are around find out more about this training if you're interested in supporting other people or if you don't know how to have that conversation because that's going to give you the confidence to at least what I call lean in to start the conversation.

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<Michael Coles>And I think mental health first aid is so crucial.

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<Michael Coles>It's actually kind of more crucial than normal first aid.

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<Michael Coles>So I think sort of like those two should actually go together.

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<Michael Coles>So what are some warning signs that mental health can be impacted while other people's trying to support other persons with mental health issues?

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<Daniel McCullough>Yeah, I think some of those warning signs are very similar to what we spoke about earlier.

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<Daniel McCullough>But really, the warning signs are around, okay, especially for if someone's struggling with their mental health with depression, some of those early warning signs are around, okay, are they not finding any joy in things that maybe they used to?

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<Daniel McCullough>So maybe they were doing things in their life and they used to get a lot of pleasure and a lot of joy out of it.

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<Daniel McCullough>You know, they used to really enjoy doing or participating in activities.

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<Daniel McCullough>And now they're just not finding any of that joy, not finding any of that meaning and purpose in what they were doing anymore.

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<Daniel McCullough>It's just not giving them that sense of satisfaction or joy.

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<Daniel McCullough>So for depression, those are some of the things we're looking out for.

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<Daniel McCullough>So if you're having a conversation with someone, some of these warning signs are around.

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<Daniel McCullough>If they're not seeing themselves, then they're seeming a bit flat and not interested, maybe isolating themselves or withdrawing.

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<Daniel McCullough>That's when we need to lean in and have those conversations for sure.

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<Daniel McCullough>So that withdrawal and isolation as well are a couple of big key ones.

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<Daniel McCullough>Yeah.

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<Michael Coles>Okay.

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<Michael Coles>So how can that lived experience with mental health help others who might feel alone or misunderstood?

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<Daniel McCullough>That's a great one.

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<Daniel McCullough>And I think the lived experience really, if people are willing to talk about their own lived experience with somebody else, what that does is it opens up a different type of conversation, a more real and genuine conversation.

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<Daniel McCullough>But what it also does is shows the person that they're not alone and they're not the only person who's gone through what they're going through.

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<Daniel McCullough>And there are people out there who can either help and support.

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<Daniel McCullough>Because some of the biggest challenges when someone's struggling with their mental health.

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<Daniel McCullough>And I've gone through it myself with my own lived experience.

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<Daniel McCullough>Sometimes it's like looking through a tunnel.

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<Daniel McCullough>It's you can't see the end of the tunnel and you're not really focusing on things outside the tunnel.

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<Daniel McCullough>It's really, really hard and you feel like you're the only one going through it and no one can help.

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<Daniel McCullough>And so that lived experience is when someone's willing to open up and share and be a little bit vulnerable and talk about it.

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<Daniel McCullough>The impact that that has is that that other person then can feel like, well, there's someone else who's gone through that, but there's also people that can help and you can feel like you're not alone.

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<Daniel McCullough>Because I can tell you from experience, sometimes you do feel like you're alone and there's nothing else that can help.

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<Daniel McCullough>So opening up that conversation and sharing and leaning on that lived experience can really help that person and take those steps to potentially reach out to help or feel a lot more supported as well.

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<Michael Coles>So what are some actual steps that can help somebody access professional mental health resources or support?

00:14:05.040 --> 00:14:07.240
<Daniel McCullough>Yeah, because this is the goal, isn't it, Michael?

00:14:07.240 --> 00:14:12.200
<Daniel McCullough>Our goal, if we're concerned about someone, is to really try and encourage them to access that professional help.

00:14:12.580 --> 00:14:22.040
<Daniel McCullough>Now, our health system isn't perfect, but I would say a couple of the first main steps that you can do is encourage the person to link in with their GP.

00:14:22.040 --> 00:14:32.160
<Daniel McCullough>So GPs are what we call a great first point of call, because one, they might already have that previous relationship with that person, so they may already feel a little bit more comfortable with them.

00:14:32.160 --> 00:14:35.760
<Daniel McCullough>But also, GPs are a great source of referrals.

00:14:35.760 --> 00:14:40.100
<Daniel McCullough>So if someone's struggling with their mental health and they're going in, the GP can ask further questions.

00:14:40.440 --> 00:14:44.580
<Daniel McCullough>They can also rule out if there's any sort of physical illnesses involved or not.

00:14:44.580 --> 00:14:54.220
<Daniel McCullough>But what they can do is they can get the person on what we call a mental health care plan, which provides sort of Medicare rebated cost reductions for seeking professional help.

00:14:54.220 --> 00:15:01.260
<Daniel McCullough>But then they can also help the person find some local professionals such as psychologists or psychiatrists around their region.

00:15:01.260 --> 00:15:07.120
<Daniel McCullough>So they're a really great first point of call and typically cheaper than going directly straight to say the psychologist.

00:15:07.220 --> 00:15:15.080
<Daniel McCullough>So a couple of tips I would have is one, if you're looking to access services, you're not really sure where to go, link them in with the GP.

00:15:15.080 --> 00:15:21.440
<Daniel McCullough>And the second thing, when you're booking that appointment, what we want to try and do is we want to book a bit of a longer appointment.

00:15:21.440 --> 00:15:25.640
<Daniel McCullough>So standard GP appointments are like 10 to 15 minutes, in the door, out the door, see you later.

00:15:25.640 --> 00:15:34.020
<Daniel McCullough>But you can actually book a longer appointment, which gives the GP more time to ask some follow up questions as well, which can be super useful and super helpful around that too.

00:15:34.780 --> 00:15:37.180
<Michael Coles>And that also sort of decreases anxiety a little bit.

00:15:37.180 --> 00:15:43.440
<Michael Coles>If you book a longer appointment, I found that you could sort of feel a bit easier rather than feeling rushed.

00:15:43.440 --> 00:15:49.500
<Michael Coles>So I think it's sort of like, I mean, a lot of the longer GP appointments, I think is essential.

00:15:49.500 --> 00:16:00.540
<Daniel McCullough>Yeah, I would totally agree because the last thing you want is to feel like you feel rushed and you feel and you might forget things and you feel like you've only got 10 minutes to talk about everything that's going on.

00:16:00.540 --> 00:16:09.140
<Daniel McCullough>So booking that longer appointment allows the GP more time to ask some further follow-up questions, simple things like, how long has this been going on for?

00:16:09.140 --> 00:16:11.760
<Daniel McCullough>Are there any things that are in their life that have been impacting them?

00:16:12.580 --> 00:16:22.700
<Daniel McCullough>They also can ask some follow-up questions and do a little bit of a questionnaire to sort of gauge how, not serious, but potentially how urgent they might be able to ask some more in-depth questions.

00:16:23.100 --> 00:16:26.300
<Daniel McCullough>So, that longer appointment time can be really crucial for sure.

00:16:26.300 --> 00:16:27.280
<Michael Coles>Yeah, exactly.

00:16:27.280 --> 00:16:35.940
<Michael Coles>So, how can we ensure that we're truly listening and validating somebody else's experiences without trying to, well, fix their problems?

00:16:35.940 --> 00:16:39.920
<Michael Coles>We don't want to sort of fix them, we just want to basically sort of like point them in the right direction.

00:16:39.920 --> 00:16:47.600
<Daniel McCullough>Yeah, and sometimes, Michael, this is as a person supporting other people, it's really tempting for us to dive straight into fixed mode, right?

00:16:47.600 --> 00:16:57.960
<Daniel McCullough>If someone's sharing something with us, if they're sharing their concerns, their challenges, it's really, it's kind of very natural for people to try and fall straight into that fixed mode of, okay, well, how can I help?

00:16:57.960 --> 00:17:08.760
<Daniel McCullough>Okay, all we're going to do is we're going to go, we're going to get you here, you're going to talk to this person, we're going to try and book you into this appointment, or we're going to try and find you another job if you've lost your job, or and automatically your mind goes into fixed mode.

00:17:08.760 --> 00:17:18.340
<Daniel McCullough>But some of the most important things you can do is to sit back and listen and allow the person to talk before we actually start trying to fix all their problems, because it's natural.

00:17:18.340 --> 00:17:20.180
<Daniel McCullough>We're caring human beings, we want to see them well.

00:17:20.760 --> 00:17:22.920
<Daniel McCullough>We want to see them better, so we want to try and fix.

00:17:22.920 --> 00:17:35.260
<Daniel McCullough>But we want to really, in this space, when we're having a mental health conversation, we want to try and sit back a little bit and ask some questions, really some things that we can do is ask some open-ended questions to really allow the person to open up and share.

00:17:35.260 --> 00:17:39.640
<Daniel McCullough>So when you're letting them know if you're truly listening, a couple of things, put the phone away, right?

00:17:39.640 --> 00:17:42.560
<Daniel McCullough>Really tempting to have the phone out or have distractions.

00:17:42.560 --> 00:17:48.480
<Daniel McCullough>And other simple things like eye contact, body language, you know, you can repeat what you've heard.

00:17:49.000 --> 00:17:56.700
<Daniel McCullough>So, you know, so, Michael, what you've told me is you're going through this, and this is the challenge you're having at the moment, and you're feeling this way, and this is how long it's been going on for.

00:17:56.700 --> 00:17:58.340
<Daniel McCullough>Have I heard this correctly?

00:17:58.340 --> 00:18:02.960
<Daniel McCullough>So really paraphrasing and repeating back to them allows that person to go, yeah, do you know what?

00:18:02.960 --> 00:18:04.440
<Daniel McCullough>Yes, you've heard me, right?

00:18:04.440 --> 00:18:07.300
<Daniel McCullough>Instead of just saying things like, I understand.

00:18:07.300 --> 00:18:08.460
<Daniel McCullough>Yep, I get it.

00:18:08.460 --> 00:18:11.260
<Daniel McCullough>Because someone could look, respond to that and go, no, you don't.

00:18:11.260 --> 00:18:11.920
<Daniel McCullough>You don't understand.

00:18:11.920 --> 00:18:12.980
<Daniel McCullough>You've never walked my shoes.

00:18:12.980 --> 00:18:14.660
<Daniel McCullough>You've never felt what I've felt.

00:18:14.660 --> 00:18:15.860
<Daniel McCullough>How can you say you've understood?

00:18:16.240 --> 00:18:19.020
<Daniel McCullough>So really, it's around, I hear what you're saying.

00:18:19.020 --> 00:18:21.680
<Daniel McCullough>So those are some really tempting things to lean into.

00:18:21.680 --> 00:18:22.600
<Daniel McCullough>We want to try and avoid that.

00:18:22.600 --> 00:18:23.960
<Daniel McCullough>What are your thoughts around that, Michael?

00:18:23.960 --> 00:18:24.200
<Michael Coles>Yes.

00:18:24.200 --> 00:18:35.880
<Michael Coles>So paraphrasing is definitely important to make sure that sort of like, you know, they're sort of like, you know, they're getting what everybody, like, you know, somebody else is saying about their mental health, because I think it's quite important.

00:18:35.880 --> 00:18:40.060
<Michael Coles>So what role does empathy play in supporting others with mental health challenges?

00:18:40.060 --> 00:18:42.840
<Michael Coles>And how can I strengthen my empathy skills?

00:18:42.840 --> 00:18:45.560
<Daniel McCullough>Yeah, empathy plays a massive role, really.

00:18:45.760 --> 00:18:53.500
<Daniel McCullough>It's huge, because what that empathy does is it allows the person to feel more comfortable and helps build that connection.

00:18:53.500 --> 00:19:04.960
<Daniel McCullough>So if you're thinking about the tips and how to actually have empathetic responses, it's things like little things like thanking the person for sharing or opening up, you know, so thank you for telling me.

00:19:04.960 --> 00:19:06.380
<Daniel McCullough>I really appreciate that.

00:19:06.380 --> 00:19:08.980
<Daniel McCullough>Sounds like you're going through a really challenging time.

00:19:08.980 --> 00:19:10.220
<Daniel McCullough>So thanks for sharing.

00:19:10.220 --> 00:19:17.800
<Daniel McCullough>So those sorts of things, what we're doing is we're putting our own judgments aside to allow the other person to feel hurt.

00:19:17.800 --> 00:19:19.720
<Daniel McCullough>So, empathy plays a massive part.

00:19:19.720 --> 00:19:23.780
<Daniel McCullough>Another thing is there's a difference between empathy and sympathy, right?

00:19:23.780 --> 00:19:25.900
<Daniel McCullough>Empathetic statements are what I was just saying.

00:19:25.900 --> 00:19:28.520
<Daniel McCullough>Sounds like you're going through a really challenging period of time.

00:19:28.520 --> 00:19:29.740
<Daniel McCullough>So, thank you for telling me.

00:19:29.740 --> 00:19:37.200
<Daniel McCullough>Compared to a sympathy type of or a sympathetic type of responses, or at least you've, you know, you've still got a house or at least you've still got a job.

00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:44.040
<Daniel McCullough>So anything that starts with at least, because what we're trying to do is that's trying to, kind of like, you know, disregard what the other person's going through.

00:19:44.040 --> 00:19:54.920
<Daniel McCullough>Whereas empathy, these types of responses is actually helping to make the person feel more comfortable and feel appreciated and feel heard in what they're actually saying, because it can be quite challenging for somebody.

00:19:54.920 --> 00:19:56.280
<Daniel McCullough>So it plays a massive part.

00:19:56.280 --> 00:19:56.660
<Michael Coles>Okay.

00:19:56.660 --> 00:20:00.860
<Michael Coles>So how has supporting others with mental health impacted my own mental well being?

00:20:00.860 --> 00:20:03.580
<Michael Coles>And what have I learned about myself through the process?

00:20:03.580 --> 00:20:15.180
<Daniel McCullough>Yeah, this one hits close to home for me, Michael, because my business and how it all started, the seed was planted for me when years ago, I was supporting someone who was struggling with their mental health.

00:20:15.180 --> 00:20:18.640
<Daniel McCullough>And at the time, I didn't have the knowledge and the education to do now.

00:20:18.640 --> 00:20:20.240
<Daniel McCullough>And so it was quite scary for me at the time.

00:20:20.240 --> 00:20:21.240
<Daniel McCullough>I didn't know what to say.

00:20:21.240 --> 00:20:22.620
<Daniel McCullough>I didn't know what to do.

00:20:22.620 --> 00:20:26.620
<Daniel McCullough>You know, I was just sort of winging at the time, trying to do the best I could.

00:20:26.620 --> 00:20:27.040
<Daniel McCullough>All right.

00:20:27.040 --> 00:20:34.280
<Daniel McCullough>And it was really scary for me, but it was also scary for the other person because I wanted to look after them, but I wasn't really sure what to do.

00:20:34.280 --> 00:20:52.340
<Daniel McCullough>And so that sort of lived experience for me now, supporting somebody else, really drives the passion of why I do what I do now and why I'm so passionate around educating other people on how to have a conversation around mental health and really giving people the tools and the knowledge to know how to support someone.

00:20:52.340 --> 00:20:57.700
<Daniel McCullough>So lived experience for me supporting others has made, like played a massive part in my life.

00:20:57.700 --> 00:21:03.840
<Daniel McCullough>And it's now why I do what I do because I don't want other people to feel like they don't have the confidence to open up a conversation.

00:21:04.260 --> 00:21:10.080
<Daniel McCullough>I would love everybody in Australia and the world to have these skills because I don't want them to feel how I felt back then.

00:21:10.080 --> 00:21:12.500
<Daniel McCullough>So that's a big part of why I do what I do now.

00:21:12.500 --> 00:21:13.080
<Michael Coles>Okay.

00:21:13.080 --> 00:21:17.320
<Michael Coles>So what are some signs that a mental health conversation might need professional support?

00:21:17.320 --> 00:21:19.500
<Michael Coles>And how can we approach this topic with someone?

00:21:20.540 --> 00:21:22.680
<Daniel McCullough>Really, it's a good question.

00:21:22.680 --> 00:21:25.360
<Daniel McCullough>How do we know when they might need some professional help?

00:21:25.360 --> 00:21:26.380
<Daniel McCullough>A couple of things.

00:21:26.380 --> 00:21:28.260
<Daniel McCullough>There's three sort of things we can look at.

00:21:28.260 --> 00:21:31.120
<Daniel McCullough>Well, one is around time.

00:21:31.120 --> 00:21:32.400
<Daniel McCullough>How long has this been going on for?

00:21:32.780 --> 00:21:36.500
<Daniel McCullough>Right, so for, say, depression, for an example, it's only two weeks.

00:21:36.500 --> 00:21:42.100
<Daniel McCullough>You know, they're feeling down, low and a lot of other signs, most of the time, all the time for two weeks.

00:21:42.100 --> 00:21:44.660
<Daniel McCullough>So how do we know if they might need a little bit more professional help?

00:21:44.660 --> 00:21:46.260
<Daniel McCullough>Well, one, how long has this been going on for?

00:21:46.260 --> 00:21:52.980
<Daniel McCullough>If it's been going on for a few weeks, I'd really encourage someone to seek that professional help and have that further advanced conversation.

00:21:52.980 --> 00:21:55.960
<Daniel McCullough>Second thing is around, is it starting to impact on their functioning?

00:21:55.960 --> 00:22:01.600
<Daniel McCullough>So is their mental health starting to get out of the way of the work, or their relationships, or their ability to study?

00:22:02.020 --> 00:22:05.340
<Daniel McCullough>And then the third thing is around, is it starting to impact on their behavior?

00:22:05.340 --> 00:22:07.560
<Daniel McCullough>You're starting to see some changes in behavior, right?

00:22:07.560 --> 00:22:26.240
<Daniel McCullough>So when we're looking at these things, it's like, okay, well, if we're starting to hear these things in a conversation and part of their life is starting to be really impacted, then really we should be encouraging them to seek professional help, because we're not the professionals, we're not the psychologists, we're not the counselors, we don't have those skills and backgrounds, we're there to have a supportive conversation.

00:22:26.240 --> 00:22:36.740
<Daniel McCullough>But the goal is to get them to at least link in with some professional help, or even a crisis line, because we are not the ones there to help fix, and we don't have those skills, and the goal is to get them to that as well.

00:22:36.740 --> 00:22:39.480
<Daniel McCullough>So those are some of the things to look out for, and some tips around that as well.

00:22:39.480 --> 00:22:47.780
<Michael Coles>And last question to finish off The Deep Dive Podcast for the day, and we ask this to every single person that's been a guest on The Deep Dive Podcast.

00:22:47.780 --> 00:22:53.200
<Michael Coles>If there's one bit of advice in 30 seconds or less that you would like to give, what would that be?

00:22:53.200 --> 00:22:55.520
<Daniel McCullough>Educate yourselves around mental health.

00:22:55.520 --> 00:23:02.760
<Daniel McCullough>Learn more, read more, follow up with some training and education for yourself or your workplace or your family or your community.

00:23:02.760 --> 00:23:05.960
<Daniel McCullough>Because once you know more, it gives you confidence and it gives you knowledge.

00:23:05.960 --> 00:23:12.820
<Daniel McCullough>If you're struggling with your mental health, if you educate yourself, that's going to strip away some of that stigma and fear because you're going to know that you're not alone.

00:23:12.820 --> 00:23:16.000
<Daniel McCullough>So that would be my one piece of advice around that for sure.

00:23:16.000 --> 00:23:20.300
<Michael Coles>And Daniel McCullough, on that note, thank you for joining us on The Deep Dive Podcast today.

00:23:20.300 --> 00:23:21.580
<Daniel McCullough>Thanks Michael, thanks for having me on.

00:23:21.580 --> 00:23:22.360
<Daniel McCullough>Really appreciate it.

00:23:23.960 --> 00:23:32.020
<Voiceover>For more information go to www.phariswellbeing.com.au or go to the Pharus Wellbeing page on Facebook and Instagram.