Kate Webbe - Promoting Health as a Neurodivergent Person

Don't forget to secure your spot in out Deep Dive Xmas Live Episode - https://www.eventbrite.com.au/e/the-deep-dive-podcast-live-xmas-zoom-tickets-1078579934619?aff=oddtdtcreator

Don't forget to check out our other episodes:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KarsSrPx6iE&list=PLPaMcwdeg7Yy63xfx7Xduxw-mEocfGq9g

Kate Webbe is a neurodivergent nutritionist. She has always been fascinated by the human body. She holds three bachelor degrees across nursing, paramedics and nutrition. She worked as a nurse for nine years before taking on a nutritionist retail assistant role as part of her autistic burnout recovery. Through her Instagram Plena Nutrition she aims to be relatable and educational. She sees clients via Telehealth to help them understand and nourish their minds and bodies in a way that works for them.

Check out her Instagram http://www.instagram.com/plenanutrition_kate

Welcome to the deep dive for this week. Don't forget to visit the website at deepdive. Au.net, check out our socials and Patreon page at the deep dive. Au, subscribe via your favorite podcast app or like and subscribe at our YouTube page at the deep dive. Au, the

deep dive podcast mugs are now available for purchase and are currently on sale. Just go to our merchandise page at Deep Dive au.net to purchase one. Don't miss out on this opportunity to grab one for yourself or as a thoughtful gift for a fellow podcast enthusiast.

This is the deep dive podcast, and here is your host, Michael Coles.

Kate Webb is a neurodivergent nutritionist. She has always been fascinated by the human body. She holds three bachelor degrees across nursing, paramedics and nutrition. She worked as a nurse for nine years before taking on the nutritious retail assistance role as part of her autistic burnout recovery through Instagram. Plan and nutrition. She aims to be relatable and educational. She sees clients by telehealth to help them understand and nourish their minds and bodies in a way that works for them. Kate Webb, welcome to the deep dive.

Thank you for having me. Michael,

how does nutrition impact the overall health and well being of individuals with autism? That

is a great question, but first, I just really wanted to really briefly touch on other things that can impact our health outcomes, because I know as autistic individuals, we can experience a lot of outside judgment, a lot of internalized ableism and a lot of shame around our eating habits. So I kind of wanted to decenter the importance of nutrition in a way before we get into it. And there's a really great model by the University of Wisconsin that looks at four areas that contribute to health outcomes for anyone, and they say that the physical environment is obviously one contributing about 10% clinical care contributes 20% and then social and economic factors contributes 40% so that is a huge percent when we look At that, and that's obviously a lot of things like education and employment that are outside our kind of immediate control. So I think, I mean, I think no one should be commenting on your eating habits, but I think we all need to check our privilege and our biases when it comes to, you know, looking at what other people are eating or what we're eating in that regard, and then health behaviors contribute to just 30% and diet and exercise obviously falls into that as well. So just like anyone else, we can be impacted by our nutrition choices. But if we are having difficulties with food restriction or limited safe foods, there are ways we can supplement and work around that as well.

Okay, so how are they specific dietary recommendations for children and adults with autism? In

a short answer, no, I was discussing this with my sister yesterday, and she was horrified to learn that there are some corners of the internet, and unfortunately, still among nutritionists and naturopaths as well that believe that diets can cure autism. And I'm using air quotes there for anyone not watching the video. But you know, I could go on any specific diet. I'm still going to be autistic at the end of the day. So what we want to be focusing on instead is the diet that works for that individual. Okay,

so what is the connection between gut health and autism? Because there is a sort of a link there.

Yeah. And again, sometimes you will see, like the old school or not, very neuro divergent, affirming thinking that gut issues are causing autism. But I kind of like to look at it from the other way as well. We know that being autistic, living in this neuro typical world, is quite demanding and overwhelming, and that stress can then impact our digestive function and lead to sort of those digestive issues there. And that's when you really want to be, hopefully, working with some neurodivergent health professionals, ideally, someone in the nutrition field to kind of look at what's happening and reduces some demands and increase capacity in other ways.

Okay, so what are the common nutritional deficiencies observed with individuals of autism?

Yes. So again, it's really individual. It depends if there are dietary restrictions, whether that's coming from the person or because of diagnosed allergies or intolerances. But it can be great to work with someone who might be able to provide reassurance to the individual or to parents of an autistic child, and look at the nutrients that are coming from safe foods, especially if there is restriction, and then we can look at adding in supplements, potentially if there are deficiencies. But there's no specific, I guess, set of deficiencies for autistic individuals, it really depends on their diet. And having said that, when it comes to digestion and deficiencies, we there are a few different factors involved. So one is like intake, like how much you actually consuming through food or drinks or supplements, and then it's how is your body digesting and absorbing that so we digest and absorb best in a low stress environment, and that's something to consider as well. Okay,

so why do individuals with autism often exhibit selective eating habits or food aversions or a, r, f, i, d for. George,

yes, excellent, Alfred. I'm glad you brought that up. So Alfred stands for avoidant, restrictive food intake disorder, and that can be common in individuals with autism and come from our sensory processing differences or from other food related trauma. So I was this child. My diet was very beige, very plain, and I was lucky that I was always supported and had access to my safe foods because I was sensitive to textures, to taste, to the smell of food, even if it wasn't the food I was eating, the smells around me and the appearance of food as well. And then again, like I said, living in a neurotypical world, there are so many demands and extra demands on us. We are having to leave the house and mask every day. We sometimes don't have capacity to try new foods or to be tolerant of inconsistent textures in our foods, for example.

Okay, so how does sensory sensitivities in autism affect food choices and nutritional intake?

Yeah. So there's a really great infographic on Instagram that has four blueberries and four crackers, and under the blueberries, it's got different descriptors of how a blueberry might taste. So it could be sweet, sour, hard, mushy, and then under the crackers, it says always the same. So I think this is a good example. And again, coming back to those increased sensitivities, we just might not have the tolerance to be having foods and fruit I find especially is very inconsistent in its texture. And you know, a simple bite of a food that might be not a big deal to a non autistic person can really throw us off having the rest of say, like that kind of blueberries, because we are just sensitive to those textures.

What is the role of specialized diet scissors, such as gluten free or case and free diets in managing autism symptoms?

Yeah, again. So it just needs to be an individual approach and trying not to make the diet any more restrictive than it needs to be. Obviously, if there are health concerns or allergies or intolerances, they're all valid concerns, but they need to be worked through with a neurodivergent affirming, ideally a nutritionist, but someone who has experience in that area, and just making the diet as least restrictive as possible, and looking at whether it is, I guess, an allergy or an intolerance to that food, or whether it's other things like stress response causing that digestive upset, or even thinking about there are certain foods that, if anyone had them in large enough doses, would cause a response. So sometimes it's just about the dose as well, and not actually an intolerance. It's just like having too much. Yeah.

So are there proven benefits for supplements, like omega three fatty acids, probiotics, vitamins A, B, C, D, whatever, for people with autism?

Yeah. So it's pretty individual, and you need to be considering if you are on medication for supplements, definitely talking to your health care professional. Omega threes can definitely be of benefit if there is like inflammation, they can be of benefit to mood as well. Probiotics need to be strain specific, so there's not probiotics per se for individuals with autism, but there might be probiotic strain probiotics to help with some of our concerns, whether that is constipation, diarrhea, digestive upset or like sleep and mood concerns. There are some really proven probiotic strains in that area. And then vitamins as well. I take a range of vitamins just because I know sometimes my diet is restrictive and I'm not getting them in, or because I'm stressed due to masking or just having to go out into the world, I'm burning through those vitamins faster and have a high intake as well. So it can definitely be of benefit. It just needs to be tailored to the person.

Okay, so how could parents and caregivers encourage balance eating habits in children with autism?

Yeah, so I think coming back to what I said at the start is also just remembering that nutrition is such a small part of the overall picture, and we want to make sure that we're not coercing people into eating things. I know that as a child, even though I was high masking, I wasn't diagnosed until I was 31 there's no way you could have coerced me or bullied me or forced me to eat foods like it was just the one area where I just like couldn't cope, and I think my family knew that, and luckily, I was always provided my safe foods and not coerced into trying new foods. So I guess it's just setting like the safe environment, letting them eat in a way that works for them, which might not look like the traditional sitting down as a family, having conversation, because that can be a lot going on. They might want to eat in quiet. They might want to eat with distractions like reading a book or even watching TV, like I watch TV for most of my meals now, because it just, it's just how I calm down and I will eat better as well.

So What strategies can help address food refusal or selective eating in individuals with autism?

Yes, so again, I guess looking at like we said, setting like a safe environment, reducing expectations around food, and then if you do have other healthcare professionals involved, or if you're doing it yourself, just trying to reduce outside demands as much as possible, which is pretty tricky if they do have to go to school or work, and increasing capacity. So you know that could be making sure they have time to engage with their special interest, or making sure they've got their stim toys for situations that they're going to need to stim in, and just reducing capacity in other ways. And I guess, kind of focusing a. Away from nutrition in a way, but also addressing if there are concerns or nutritional deficiencies. A couple that I will touch on that could be relevant is that iron deficiency can decrease appetite and zinc deficiency can decrease like taste sensitivity. So that's when you will see people potentially seeking out like stronger flavors as well. So just some things to keep in mind. Okay,

so how can meal planning be adapted to accommodate the unique needs for somebody with autism? Yes,

so I think meal planning what it needs to be flexible and always make sure there are safe foods and safe snacks and access to those in the house, and depending on the individual if they can contribute to the meal planning or tell you what meals they want to eat for the week. That's great if you're trying to, say, reduce the mental load. If my partner's meal planning for us, he'll come up with a list, and then he'll run it by me, and also make sure to be stocking up on our backup safe foods as well. And we know that in our house, even if we've cooked this meal that's taken an hour, if it then doesn't look appealing, we don't even pressure each other to try it. Or we can try it and have a bite and just be like, No, I'm not into that. So we don't use the word yuck. We don't want to yuck someone else's yum. But just creating, like, a low pressure environment where it's okay to try something without having to commit to eating a full meal as well. Yeah,

which? Which is very important. So how does what role does therapy, occupational therapy, speech therapy and behavioral therapy play in addressing addressing eating challenges with autism? Yeah,

so I don't know a lot about these therapies in autism, but I would say that again, it's about trying to reduce demands and increase capacity in other ways, especially, you know, if dinner time is like a challenging time. If a child has been at school a day of having to mask and having to deal with other people's demands, hasn't been able to read books that they're interested in, whatever it may be, trying to look at ways to support them in other ways, so that they're not coming to the dinner table, like flat with like nothing left in the tank, because sometimes, like, the over stimulation or being tired, like would just ruin the appetite completely anyway. Like, I know if I'm tired, sometimes I prefer to just go to bed than even eat dinner.

How do core Melbourne conditions, for example, ADHD and gastrointestinal issues complicate nutritional management with autism? Yes.

So they can definitely complicate things. I'm an ADHD as well, and sometimes that will clash with my beautiful autistic routines and plans for the week, so I might have all my meals laid out. They might be my safe foods, and then my ad HD will kick in midweek and be like, Oh, that's boring. Let's go out for burgers. And you know, if that's my budget, that's fine, but sometimes it's not, and I just have to try and negotiate with myself in a way, to find something in the house to eat, we'll just prepare something, knowing that I might not end up eating it as well. Gastrointestinal concerns, obviously, if there are unpleasant symptoms there, that's going to impact appetite as well. And something that I haven't mentioned, but that is important to consider with autistic folk, is that we can have interoception issues. So interoception refers to like being able to assess and recognize those internal body cues, whether that's like hunger, thirst, needing to urinate, and often, we can struggle to recognize those cues and our hunger might present in different ways. So we might not think we're hungry until we start eating, or we might not recognize our hunger until we're getting, like, really irritated, or there's like, a meltdown coming on. So it's just important to recognize that we don't necessarily have the same hunger to use as everyone else as well.

What are the challenges of ensuring proper nutrition for individuals with autism in the school or community setting?

Yeah, so this can be really tricky as well, and one that I've struggled with myself from preschool even to now. I started a new job this year, and I was taking like, instead of taking like a meal, I would take like a bar and like a Yog, which was fine, just because I didn't know how I'd go eating in a new environment, because it can be a lot of pressure, like I said, there's masking, which is exhausting, and schools, again, just can be a tiring and over stimulating environment. So it's important to keep in mind that, you know, if a child is eating before and after school, they can still be getting in nutrition that way as well. And then it's just about providing something that they're going to eat at school and trying to encourage, I guess, body autonomy as well as possible. I know schools can. I don't know. I don't really know what schools are like these days, but I have a friend who's about to put her child and childcare, and they said, even from one to two years old, they don't use high chairs because they don't want the children to feel trapped. They can get up, they can walk around, and they even put all the food out, and the children serve themselves. And I just thought that was like, really neuro divergent, affirming really and really respecting, like, the child's autonomy, and supporting them to eat in a way that works for them. How

can healthcare professionals better support families dealing with autism related nutritional concerns?

Yeah, so I think if you are a healthcare professional, you do have that duty of care, and you want to be neurodivergent, affirming and ideally referring on to people who specialize in the nutrition space, like a nutritionist. And if that's not. Not an option for that family or that budget, then you need to be upskilling yourself or having resources available that you can send people to. So one Instagram account I will shout out is whole body nutrition, which is run by my friend Margo, who's been just such a help in my personal and professional journey the last couple of years. And she has a lot of free resources on there, including some really useful scripts if people are commenting on you or your child's eating, and ways to kind of set boundaries around that. Yeah. So I think as a health professional, you can screen for nutrient deficiencies if that's within your scope of practice, like a GP, can do some tests for some of the common ones, and then just building capacity in other ways and maybe shifting the focus away from eating so that that child isn't internalizing that pressure as well. Okay?

And one final question we like to ask all the guests here on the deep dive podcast. If there is one bit of advice in 30 seconds or less that you would love to give, what would that be? Just

remember that you are doing your best and eating something is better than eating nothing, and no one should be commenting on your food hour or coercing you to try things so you need to respect your body autonomy.

And on that note, Kate Webb, thank you for joining us on the deep dive podcast today. That's all right. Thank

you for having me.

Check out Kate Webb's Instagram at clean and nutrition. Underscore, Kate, you.